JON: I think nature is fractals
JON: well life
JON: because life is just self-repeating patterns
CHRIS: fractals or imperfect fractals
JON: well
CHRIS: i always view nature as this rough rugged imperfect mimicry of a beautiful system
JON: imperfect if viewed without all the fourth dimension
JON: yeah but think about it like a infinite sum
CHRIS: infinite sum? like "it is what it is"
JON: it's always getting closer to the pefect, always will be, thus it is perfect
CHRIS: in that case, yes it succeeds with an allowance of failure
CHRIS: lets make sure we know what perfect means
CHRIS: "always getting closer to perfect" - to me means the universe seeking frozen stasis
CHRIS: entropy decreasing
CHRIS: clock pendulums stopping
CHRIS: no economy of momentum
JON: well if you look life as a system, and not a state, it's hard to say it's imperfect
CHRIS: maybe its just way too easy to interpret things like extinctions as failures
CHRIS: maybe 'species X existing for eons' was a necessary notch for condition Y
CHRIS: maybe human nuke fest was the inevitable outcome of primordieal protein strands
CHRIS: sorry i am in this "nova narrator" mood lately
JON: oh no, you throw humans into the mix then that fucks up everything
CHRIS: nah i disagree
JON: I have this theory that fate exists every where
JON: except near consciousness is
CHRIS: human mess, destructive human foresight, is still part of the petri dish to me
JON: well of course it is
JON: how could it not be, but it's not inevitable
CHRIS: sometimes i would argue that whatever happens WAS inevitable
CHRIS: one-track chronology
JON: no that's fate and fate only exists where consciousness does not
JON: a rock is fated to fall
JON: i am not fated to choose a red shirt or a blue shirt
CHRIS: cant you allow consciousness inside of a grand fate
CHRIS: which would in turn destroy consciousness
JON: what do you mean
JON: fate and free choice are opposite
CHRIS: ok i guess i mean - i am very ok with accepting chaos clockwork. accepting that a rock will fall in 37 days and your brain synapses will choose a red shirt because you saw a red thing once in the past
JON: well ok I guess that's the choice that you have to make
CHRIS: i have no qualms if choice turns out to be the illusion of choice
JON: whether you are just a computer or a living thing
JON: i have no doubt in my mind that when I make a decision it is not because I am some complex computer given certain stimuli
CHRIS: i think i find no reason to separate living things from rocks and physics
CHRIS: ah then we differ on that directly
JON: I guess that's where we differ.
JON: yes
CHRIS: ha
CHRIS: lets thank our lucky stars we are not cocky teens
JON: no you are gay